is he – one of the most influential thinkers of our time. Heads of state and leaders of the world's largest companies listen to it. Yuval Noah Harari – 43-summer israeli historian, Professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, author of several books, world bestsellers. We spoke to him after his lecture in Budapest.
Gabor Kiss, Euronews: “Mr. Harari, Thank you, what came to us on “Global Dialogue”. Let's start with bets! Ahead of European parliamentary elections, the future of the EU is at the center of discussions. How much are you willing to bet on, that through 15 years the European Union will still exist?”
Yuval Noah Harari: “I dont know. As a historian, I can say, that the future of such things cannot be predicted. Very often the most unexpected events occur.. And that's the only thing, what is really reliable in history. A few months before the revolution 1989 years in Eastern Europe no one expected this. Five years earlier, it would have looked like science fiction at all.. So it is with the future EU – it cannot be predicted. I hope, that voters will make the right decisions and keep the EU, because it is important not only for peace in Europe – the prosperity of Europe is important for the whole world and its prosperity”.
Gabor Kiss: “In your books you have emphasized, that global challenges can only be resolved through cooperation. But now it seems, that worldwide cooperation – difficult process. Nationalism has increased throughout Europe. What do you think, why it became popular and what should be the answer to it?”
Yuval Noah Harari: “People need to understand, that humanity faces three threats to its existence, which cannot be filmed nationally. They can only be eliminated globally.. These threats – nuclear war, climate change and technological destruction, especially the development of artificial intelligence and bioengineering. Artificial intelligence and biotechnology can destroy that, what does it mean to be human. The only way to deal with it – this is a global collaboration. Should we start an arms race in artificial intelligence or genetics, it guarantees the destruction of humanity. Whoever wins this race, it does not matter – humanity will lose”.
Gabor Kiss: “Binary thinking and nationalism can be dangerous”.
Yuval Noah Harari: “Nationalism has good and bad sides. Nationalism – one of the most positive manifestations in the history of mankind, but it also has a dangerous side. The positive side of nationalism is, that he allows millions of strangers to care for each other and collaborate. Other side, the evil side of nationalism – this is hatred of foreigners. I think, that this is not the essence of nationalism. Part of the problem, encountered today in certain parts of the world, It is, that instead of, to focus on loving your fellow countrymen, there are people, who focus on hatred of foreigners. There are people, who can be corrupt, stealing money from the health care system – they don't really promote the interests of their fellow citizens. But at the same time, they present themselves as great patriots.. Why? Because they hate foreigners”.
Gabor Kiss: “Many people seek to strengthen and validate their beliefs instead of, to read credible news. How to get back to rational discussions, when some leaders avoid meaningful answers and seek scapegoats, such as George Soros, Fethullah Gulen or Liberals?”
Yuval Noah Harari: “This is not a new trick, It has always been. Today's novelty – these are incredibly powerful new technologies for capturing and misusing human attention. Problem, which we face now, It is, that technology is taking over our weaknesses. We now have powerful technology, that can expose our weaknesses – the, what do we feel, what we hate, and get our attention, by pressing these emotional buttons. One of the reasons, by which we need to regulate these dangerous technologies, It is, to protect people from being hacked, operating, protect people's attention from abuse”.
Gabor Kiss: “Are you afraid, that Orwellian-style dictatorships will abuse vast personal data?”
Yuval Noah Harari: “I am very much afraid of this. I think, that technology now allows for the creation of many more totalitarian regimes, than ever before in human history. Even more extreme, than, what George Orwell represented. Because Orwell imagined the situation, in which there is a totalitarian regime, who watches you all the time, but only in the outside world – what are you doing, where are you going, who are you meeting, what are you talking about. Now we got the technology, allowing you to control people around the clock, whole population, even then, what's going on inside their bodies – with biometric sensors and with a combination of artificial intelligence and biotechnology. for example, there are already schools in China, where students wear biometric bracelets. Now they say, that they are used for educational purposes. The teacher knows, do you fall asleep, do you miss, do you have any difficulties. But the same technology can be used for political purposes. the, what we saw in the 20th century on the examples of Stalin, Hitler or Mao, will be nothing compared to this type of machine, which have already started building today”.
Gabor Kiss: “What dangers will we face, if there is an elite, who can afford to prolong life and oppress the useless masses?”
Yuval Noah Harari: “If we don't use new technologies correctly, then the result will be, what do you describe. Biotechnology will be used to endow a small elite with superhuman status, which most people will be left far behind. That is, there will be a division of humanity between different species, and for the first time in history the rich will be different from the poor. This is the greatest inequality in history. Many jobs will disappear, but there will be new jobs. The really big problem won't be a complete lack of jobs, and retraining of people. People have to change their jobs over and over again., and again, to learn all my life. Currently, the education system does not prepare them for this.”.
Gabor Kiss: “Finally, a few personal questions. As per your thoughts, as a citizen of Israel, affected by the constant noise of exploding shells and sirens?”
Yuval Noah Harari: “I don't hear it all the time, it happens from time to time. The situation in Gaza is truly dire for the people, living there, but in Israel most people live quite normal lives most of the time. it, certainly, affects my thinking. I think, that I am much less naive in many matters. If I lived in San Francisco, in California, I could easily get carried away by these rosy impressions – “O yes, technology is great, they do so much great for humanity”. If you live in Israel, you understand, that humanity has many dark sides”.
Gabor Kiss: “You do lengthy meditation retreats every year. How do you return to your daily life after that??”
Yuval Noah Harari: “Everything is changing so fast – technology, politics… It's more important than ever to take a break, disconnect completely, to give yourself time and really get to know yourself, to think deeply about these questions. We have almost no time for anything. And we need to make the most important decisions in human history in the next few years.. We now have the divine powers of creation and destruction. And people, it is not the gods who must decide, what to do with them. One of the problems for me, when i meet these important people – I recently met with Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg and Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz, – one of my problems is, that these leaders don't have time. They don't have time to just sit, rest and think deeply. Because they are always in a hurry to resolve a particular crisis.”.
